conversation between His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and Dr.Sallaz, Biochemist
Prabhupāda: The real purpose of going to holy places is to find out there the holy man and take knowledge from him. That is real going to the holy places of pilgrimage. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that his members, who have gone to India, they themselves are considered to be holy men.
Dr. Sallaz: And he went not there as tourist or to inquire. He went to speak, to try to speak about the truth, not about..., for questions.
Prabhupāda: So some of you have gone. So what truth you have seen? That is... What is the truth? What you have learned about the truth? (French)
Yogeśvara: That we must continue to look for it.
Prabhupāda: But that is... They have not looked. Or they have not found out.
Dr. Sallaz: To try to reach it.
Prabhupāda: They are trying. They are trying, but they have not reached. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says he doesn't pretend to have found it.
Prabhupāda: That's it. But then the next step is just to now find it. Here is the truth, Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa. So why don't you accept this truth? If you are actually trying to find out the truth, here is the truth. It is accepted by all learned scholars and ācāryas of India: the Supreme Absolute Truth is Kṛṣṇa, so why don't you study Kṛṣṇa? (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that's the kind of question you would have to ask his members.
Prabhupāda: I can ask the members. I can talk with the members. If they are actually trying to find out the truth, then I can present them the truth. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that perhaps his members won't think that they need this kind of truth.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the searching after truth? It is hypocrisy. (French)
Yogeśvara: Maybe they already know the truth.
Prabhupāda: Then what is that truth? Let us know.
Dr. Sallaz: I am sure that some of them knows perfectly well all the Bhagavad-gītā. (French)
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Yogeśvara: He says that you don't really need proof to convince anyone. Why should he have to show proof that you know...
Prabhupāda: No, if you are searching after truth... Suppose if you are searching after gold. And if I give you gold, why don't you accept it? (French)
Yogeśvara: Apparently his position is that by their research, they have discovered the truth.
Prabhupāda: What is that truth? (French)
Yogeśvara: He says it's the same truth that we are following.
Prabhupāda: Well, same truth, this is vague. But what is the tangible presentation of the truth. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says he can't explain it.
Prabhupāda: We can explain it. Why does he not take from us? We can explain it. (French)
Prabhupāda: If he knows truth, let him explain. If he does not know, take from us. (French)
Dr. Sallaz: I do not. Be careful. I am trying to understand. I do not. I don't say to you I know the truth, not at all. I hope to know...
Prabhupāda: Then why don't you take truth from us? (French)
Yogeśvara: He says because he already has a guru and he already has everything he needs.
Prabhupāda: But your guru has not given you the truth. You do not know. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that the guru doesn't give the truth just like that. He says it's something that you have to work for little by little.
Prabhupāda: Then he does not know what is truth. We can give truth. Just like I give you some money, "Here, take this hundred dollars," we can give the truth in that way. (French)
Yogeśvara: Why he should take it just like that when he can go on as he is going, preparing himself little bit by little bit.
Prabhupāda: Why little bit? If he gets the, I mean to say, thing immediately, why should you go little by little? (French) Suppose you are... (French)
Yogeśvara: He says because he finds it more pleasing. His spiritual master has given him a name Ratnānanda, and he says that that name means one who prepares himself little by little for the truth.
Prabhupāda: But is that very good intelligence? Suppose you are searching after one million dollars. You are working little by little, little, and if somebody says, "Here is one million dollar. You take it," Why don't you take it? (French)
Yogeśvara: He says it's a moral question. He already has his guru, and his guru has died. He's gone over to the other side, and he can't change gurus.
Prabhupāda: But there is no question of changing guru. If he is actually searching after the truth, then why he is denying the truth when it is delivered? (French)
Yogeśvara: He would have to be sure that it was the actual highest truth.
Dr. Sallaz: The real truth, eternal truth. Because you see...
Prabhupāda: That is... That we are... (French)
Yogeśvara: This is what the conclusion we came to yesterday with that other guest, that he says they have also find truths in China, they have also found truths in other scriptures.
Prabhupāda: So what is that truth? (French) [break] ...is that reality?
Yogeśvara: He says he himself, he doesn't have the words to describe it.
Prabhupāda: If you cannot describe the reality, then you have not received the reality. (French) [break] That means, as soon as you say you cannot describe, then you have no idea what is the reality.
Yogeśvara: He's willing to admit that.
Prabhupāda: So if you are actually searching after reality, why not, if reality is available from other source, why don't you take it?
(recorded in June 4, 1974, Geneva)