Hṛdayānanda: Sometimes they argue that "God has revealed Himself within my heart, so I don't need to read any books because I have a special connection with God."
Prabhupāda: But your revelation and my revelation different. Why?
Hṛdayānanda: "Because God has so many different aspects that He reveals a different aspect to everyone."
Prabhupāda: That is their argument. Then what is the standard of that aspect? Just like in the material world we see, somebody richer than others. This is also aspect of material situation. So if one is millionaire, he is better than a person who has got a few coins. So similarly, your realization of God and my realization of God, different. So I may be greater realized than you. What do you say, theologian?
Prajāpati: Well, today, Prabhupāda most of the literature is written on subjects of death of God, an eclipse of God, the fact that the people in general, it's a secular society and no one is even discussing God.
Prabhupāda: That means they have failed. After discussing when they could not find out actually what is God, they have given up the idea. Failure.
Prajāpati: They think of it as actually a maturity. "We needed to talk about God when we were infants, and now we are advanced."
Prabhupāda: So maturity, you must give what is that standard God, if it is mature. Mature means you must give the real standard. That is mature. But if nobody of you can give the what is the real standard, then how it is mature? Bali Mardana Prabhu, what do you think? Mature means the final conclusion. Just like in scientific theory. All the scientists come into conclusion, "Yes, this is the..."
Bali Mardana: It's just an excuse because they don't know.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, they don't know. That's it.
Karandhara: No, they've just become mature atheists.
Prabhupāda: Mature atheists, yes.
Karandhara: Even though... at most they say God just means goodness or truth.
Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is that goodness. They have no knowledge what is the standard of goodness. Somebody is cutting the throat; he's also good. And somebody is very sober; he is also good. So what is the standard of goodness?
Karandhara: That's what they argue about, write books on. Mostly they make vague references and emotional pleas for goodness and honesty.
Prabhupāda: No, what is that honesty and what is that goodness? They must give some definition.
Prajāpati: You've summed it up very nicely, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you call them just jugglers of words.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is scientist? Svarūpa Dāmodara?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Here Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So, what is the standard of goodness according to your scientific view?
Hṛdayānanda: They say, "Just don't... If someone does what he likes and doesn't hurt anyone else, that's good."
Karandhara: They don't do that.
Hṛdayānanda: "If I just do my thing for God but I don't hurt anyone, that's good."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have no definition for standard of goodness.
Prabhupāda: No. No, no many times they...
Hṛdayānanda: Many times they say that...
Prabhupāda: They have no standard. But we have got definition of God. That is the difference. What is our definition?
Satsvarūpa: Supreme controller.
Prajāpati: That person who is complete with all six opulences...
Prajāpati: ...in total fullness.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is God.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavān. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyāḥ, jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva ṣaḍ iti bhagavān gaṇaḥ. (?)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that is imagination.
Prabhupāda: Why imagination? It is not imagination. Just like I am a man. I have got hundred dollars. He has got thousand dollars. He has got four thousand or five thousand. In this way we see comparative. One is richer than other, other, other. Then why there shall not be somebody who is richest of all? We see practically. How can you deny? That is God. Power, strength—you are stronger than me, he is stronger than you, he is stronger, like that. But if we find somebody, that nobody is stronger than him, he is God. Education, beauty, all the six opulences, you compare. Because we see comparative, so there must be somebody ideal, above whom there is no more education, no more wisdom, no more beauty. That is God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That they are hesitant to accept.
Prabhupāda: Why they should be hesitant? That is their foolishness. We see comparative, superlative, in our experience.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say the concept of God is just imagination.
Prabhupāda: Imagination? That is atheism. Why imagination? This is the definition of God, that in these six items-richness, beauty, wisdom, strength, influence... So we see, practical world, that there are superlative, comparative. So when it comes to the topmost superlative degree, that is God.
Karandhara: They have a system which they call scientific integrity, which, roughly translated, means anything they can't perceive through their gross senses they can't accept as being a fact.
Prabhupāda: This is... Anyone can... Any child can accept. What is that?
Karandhara: Well, they say, If there was a God, He would be perceivable to everyone, whether they believed in Him or not, He would be so obvious.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is available. This is common formula, that we see comparative study of these six opulences. When it is topmost, that is God.
Karandhara: But they say, "We cannot literally see that embodied in any one person."
Prabhupāda: No, you can see, but you have no eyes to see. Suppose there are so many richest person. We have not seen, but they must be admitted. Just like in your country, Rockefeller. So it does not mean—one has not heard about Rockefeller—therefore it does not exist.
Karandhara: But Rockefeller is constantly having to prove and assert his power.
Prabhupāda: No, prove to you, prove to me, but there are many who does not know. So that does not mean the Rockefeller is not existing. Your limited sense cannot approach. Therefore you cannot say that the thing is not existing. That is another rascaldom.
Karandhara: Well, on the other hand, they say what you can't say you...
Prabhupāda: No, I can't say? Why I cannot say? I am saying, that this man is richer than this man. This man is richer than this man. You go on, go on, go on, studying. But if you cannot study, you cannot approach, that is your inefficiency. But there is existing actually. This man is greater than this man, this man is greater than... That's all. But who is that highest educated... That you do not see. That does not mean He is not existing. There must be, because the step is going on. How can you deny this?
Bali Mardana: We cannot see, but someone else can see.
Satsvarūpa: Kṛṣṇa says He's not manifest to the foolish.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is... You may not have seen something, but I have seen.
December 8, 1973, Los Angeles