Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are very much convinced that this earth was gaseous. So there was no life at the beginning.
Prabhupāda: That may be. That may be that. But wherefrom the gas came?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It was just existing.
Prabhupāda: Bhinnā prakṛtiḥ. The answer is given. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ [Bg. 7.4]. Vāyu, vāyu gas, it came from Kṛṣṇa. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāyu. Vāyu is gas, is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Air.
Prabhupāda: And finer than the vāyu is the ether, the sky. Finer than the sky is the mind. Finer than the mind is the intelligence, and finer than the intelligence is the soul. So they do not know this. They capture only middle thing, vāyu. Wherefrom the vāyu came? Wherefrom the gas came?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That part remains unanswered. That part cannot be answered.
Prabhupāda: But we answer, we answer. We have got the knowledge. The gas came from ether, and ether came from mind, and mind came from intelligence, and intelligence came from the soul.
Hṛdayānanda: They will say you cannot prove that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we can prove that.
Hṛdayānanda: How will you prove it?
Prabhupāda: You see still, gases, I mean to say, cloud is forming in the sky. But you have no eyes to see it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: With this background before, then that is why they start saying that before Darwin's theory there should be one. That is called chemical evolution. That is called pre-biotic-chemistry. Means before biological evolution started there should be chemical evolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that chemical evolution is part of life demonstration. That I have already explained. Just like the chemical, citric acid, coming from lemon tree, a life. It is coming. So all chemicals are being produced... Just like in your body, in my body, there are so many chemicals. Because the body is there, the chemicals are coming. In my urine you will find so much, so many chemicals. In my stool you will find so many chemicals. Wherefrom the chemicals coming? Daily, enzymes, so many other chemicals are coming. Simply the medical man analyzes the urine, and so many chemicals are there. Wherefrom it came? Because I am living entity, the chemicals are coming in my urine, in my stool, in my cough, in my secretion. It is coming. Therefore it is concluded that chemicals are produced by life, not life is produced by chemicals.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they are saying that once the seed of life, that is, the cells, the living cells, are built, then it continues automatically.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but who gives the seed? That is answered in Bhagavad-gītā. Bījo 'haṁsarva-bhūtānām [Bg 7.10]. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām. He gives the seeds, and He is life.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the scientists are now trying to make the seed.
Prabhupāda: Then kick on their face with boot. With boot, rascal. You are trying. That is rascaldom. We protest against this. "We are trying." What is this nonsense, trying? Do it immediately. Then we shall accept. Trying, everyone is trying. Just like a child is trying to build a house with this sand. So is that very nice proposal, that here will be house? That is childish. Then you accept that you are child in the field of knowledge. Don't pose yourself that you know everything, or your knowledge is everything. That is our protest. "We are trying." Trying, everyone is trying. What is the difference between the scientists and ordinary man?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that they are coming very close.
Prabhupāda: Oh! That is also another foolishness. That is called will o' the wisp. The ass. Ass is trying to get the grass, and the washerman is showing only, and the ass is advancing, the grass is advancing. (laughter) You see. This is their thing.
Dr. Wolfe: But in all humility, Śrīla Prabhupāda, supposing that they would succeed in actually creating the living cell artificially, what would we say?
Prabhupāda: What is the credit there? It is already there. So what credit he can get?
Karandhara: Best they just imitated what has already happened.
Prabhupāda: Imitated. Just like, that I explained also. The example is that when an imitation barking is there, people go and purchase ticket. And when real barking is there, nobody cares. This is their business. They are so fool that their government is purchasing the ticket, and they're hearing the imitation barking. That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But once they are successful they are going to make super beings they are called super beings, superhuman beings, super animals.
Prabhupāda: But they cannot create even an ant, and now they are going to make super beings. This is another foolishness. They cannot create even an ant, moving ant, and they're going to make super being. Just see. And we have to believe them. (laughter) We are not so fools. Your so-called scientists may be fools, but we are not so fools.
Yaśomatīnandana: You give the example of a potter who was dreaming...
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, yes, That's it. A potter.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This idea Śrīla Prabhupāda, about the chemical evolution, this idea came from, I think, in 1920 by a Russian scientist. He is a biologist. His name is Oparin. So he demonstrated that before biological evolution the atmosphere of the earth should be, he called, very much reducing. Reducing, that means it must be mostly full of hydrogens, no oxygen, very little oxygen, but mostly hydrogen. Then in due course because of the reaction in these hydrogen compounds and the radiation from the sunlight, then these compounds form into different chemicals which are...
Prabhupāda: That is a side study. But there was hydrogen. Wherefrom the hydrogen came? The scientists, simply they study in the middle. But they do not know what is the origin. Just like here is one aeroplane is coming, and you can say, "All of a sudden a light came out of the sea." Is that the study of this aeroplane? If we... the foolish person will see, "All of a sudden, in the sea there was a light." Is that scientific study? So your study is like that. "There was this, and all of a sudden, by chance..." That's it. That is not scientific study. We have to find out the original cause.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in due course if they create these amino acids, there are 20 amino acids which are necessary for the body, for the material body.
Prabhupāda: But it is already created. What is your credit?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they want to do it themselves.
Prabhupāda: You may do, but already... Just like there is a soap factory. You start another soap factory. So what is your credit? It is already there.
Yaśomatīnandana: The big, big soap factory.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is your credit? Yes. You can imitation, make an imitation. And you want to take credit, all credit, for the original creator, simply by imitating. You are so foolish. Why shall I give you the credit? I shall give credit to the origin. That is our philosophy.
Karandhara: When they discover a natural law, they name it after themselves, like "Newton's law." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: It is already there, already there, and the rascal wants to take credit.
Yaśomatīnandana: They adjust a little bit and they say that they have conquered...
Prabhupāda: No adjustment. That is another foolishness. You cannot adjust. Even you cannot adjust a moment of nature's law. You cannot adjust.
Yaśomatīnandana: You just discover it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No discovery. You do not know, arrangement. This is already there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Practically they are fighting against the laws of nature, but sometimes they find pleasure in doing this.
Prabhupāda: That is childish. Just like they build with the sand palatial building, the children, and they take pleasure in it. That's all. That is children's pleasure. That is not sane man's pleasure. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. Māyā-sukhāya. This pleasure is māyā, and they are making humbug. Therefore they are vimūḍhān, vimūḍhān, all foolish men. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān [SB 7.9.43]. The materialists, they have created a standard of happiness. That is māyā. That is not happiness. But for that māyā happiness, false happiness, they have beget a gorgeous arrangement. That's all. Therefore they are vimūḍhān. They are so vimūḍhān, so foolish. Now suppose they have created this nice comfortable civilization, but they have not created the situation that they will be able to enjoy it. At any moment they will be kicked out, "Get out! Finished. All finished." So where is that guarantee that you will be able to enjoy this?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why the scientists are saying that God didn't give us everything so that we can make very happy.
Prabhupāda: Then God is there. Accept. Then why do you say there is no God? Then God is life. Then everything comes from life. You have to accept. That is our proposal. If they accept that "God has not given us the capacity," then they are intelligent. They are accepting God.
Karandhara: Well, they say, "God hasn't given us everything because we are not able to live forever here."
Prabhupāda: Why? That means God is controller. You are controlled. You admit this.
Yaśomatīnandana: If these people are allowed to live forever then they will make this place more than a hell, worse than hell.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) God has given them everything actually, to live peacefully and try to understand God, but that they will not do. They will do something to try to forget God. That is their aim.
Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles