Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we understand that in the Satya-yuga one hundred percent of the population was God conscious. But then again, we see many times it is stated that, for example, there were always prostitutes or there was always this or...
Prabhupāda: No, there were no prostitute in Satya-yuga.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No meat-eaters.
Prabhupāda: No meat-eaters.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: None whatsoever.
Prabhupāda: All paramahaṁsas. In the Satya-yuga they are all paramahaṁsa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every single person.
Prabhupāda: Every person was perfectly, spiritually...
Harikeśa: On the earth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then in Tretā-yuga one-fourth diminished. And then Dvāpara-yuga, half diminished. And in Kali-yuga, three-fourth diminished. Seventy-five per cent are all rogues, and twenty-five per cent... That is expected, but that is now diminishing. They are all rogues with the advancement of Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. Therefore there is no other method to save them. Harer nāmaiva kevalam. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. Incorrigible. Everyone will be incorrigible. Only hope is Hare Kṛṣṇa. The whole Vedic system is to make human being correct. Being incorrect, they are suffering in this material world repetition of birth, death. Sometimes man, sometimes dog. So to correct him so that he comes to his original position, Kṛṣṇa conscious, and go back to home. This is the whole Vedic civilization, to correct him. Therefore it is called saṁskāra. Saṁskāra means correction. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Veda-pāṭhād bhaved vipro brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ.(?)To correct him and bring him to the brahminical stage. From pig stage to brahminical stage. This is Vedic civilization. Everyone is like pig in this material world. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Now don't live like pig." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁnṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: [SB 5.5.1] "Now, you, My children... " He was advising, instructing His son that "Now this life is not to live like pig." This is the first instruction, because everyone is more or less pig, living like pig. Pig means he has no discrimination of eating and he has no discrimination of sex. That is pig. And everyone is like that. No discrimination of eating, especially in the Western. And no discrimination of sex. Pigs. Big pig or small pig, that's all. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Now My dear sons, don't spoil your life living like pigs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁnṛloke. Nṛloke means "In the human society you should not live like pig and very hard labor." So the whole civilization at the present moment they want to live like pig, and to live like pig they are working like an ass. And that is civilization, working like ass to become a pig. You tell them!
Harikeśa: They will get very angry.
Prabhupāda: Angry... With shoes. We beat them with shoes that "You have created a civilization to work like ass, and ideal is to become a pig. What is this civilization? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puru... [SB 2.3.19]. And for their votes you become a president. What you are better than a pig? A pig votes for another pig, big pig. That's all. How people will be happy?"
Harikeśa: You told them that in South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Did I say?
Prabhupāda: But they clapped.
Harikeśa: Yes. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They appreciated. Although they do not take Indians very seriously...
Harikeśa: "Third-class citizens."
Prabhupāda: Third class. But they attended my lecture, they purchased my books and they clapped.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. South Africa...
Prabhupāda: Yes, South Africa. That I... Very much I was astonished that how these...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many of them?
Prabhupāda: Oh, many of them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. I thought only Indians attended.
Harikeśa: Oh, no.
Prabhupāda: No, no. White men. Yes. And in Melbourne the priests also appreciated. So any sane man will appreciate our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. These are very strong words, that "You have created a civilization of pig, and for making perfect that civilization you are working like ass." So what is the advancement? A ass is trying to become a pig. What is that civilization? The ideal is to become a pig, and for that, fulfillment of that idea, they are working like ass. Is it not? Just see. Think over.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we speak like that in the classrooms, whew!
Bhavānanda: They like it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very strong.
Prabhupāda: This is the fact. Therefore Bhāgavata says, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. They are very much proud: "I have got ninety-nine percent votes and I have become President." But what you are? You are another big pig only. Who has voted you? The voters are pigs and asses and camel and dogs. So if these animal vote for somebody, then what he is? Is there... Are... Their votes are calculable at all? Votes by the dogs, pigs, camels, and... śva-viḍ-varāha. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara, and asses. So what is the value of these votes? And that is going on, democracy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can they vote for human beings?
Prabhupāda: There is no human being. A big... I gave that a big animal, lion, is fearful to the small animal. But because he is lion, very strong, does it mean that he's a human being? That is going on. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's nothing but animal. So if other small animals praise him, "Oh, you are..." This Gandhi or Indira Gandhi or, and the Hitler and... What is the value? He's a big animal, that's all.
Harikeśa: You were saying in Vṛndāvana they tweak each other's ear.
Harikeśa: Churchill was tweaking the ear of Hitler, and Hitler was tweaking... Like in school the two children?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Jayapatākā: Yesterday you mentioned to the secretary that the members of legislature should all be Vaiṣṇavas. They should all be brahminically qual...
Jayapatākā: Brāhmaṇa-vaiṣṇava. Then they could give true advice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is this nonsense asses and pigs and dogs and cats? What they will do?
Jayapatākā: One goal we could have is that they would pass a law that no one could be a member of a legislature who didn't follow the four regulative principles.
Prabhupāda: Who will do that? That can be possible if you spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very widely and they become convinced that "We shall not vote anyone to these rascals. We must have a Vaiṣṇava." Then everything will be changed. That is the only opportunity, that if people become Vaiṣṇava and they decide that "We are not going to vote anyone who is not a Vaiṣṇava," then everything will be all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes the devotees question that the Kali-yuga is advancing, and in that sense the standards are deteriorating. Yet you are preaching that "Get everyone to the position where everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious." How in the Kali-yuga advancing can everyone become Kṛṣṇa conscious?
Prabhupāda: They do not understand. If I say, "The epidemic is increasing. You take this injection, then you can be saved. If you don't take vaccination, then you'll suffer." This is our propaganda. "You take this vaccination; you'll be saved. The epidemic is very strong." But if you think, "Now, because there is epidemic there is no other way. What is the use of taking vaccination?" This is no argument. The epidemic is there; the vaccination is there. (aside:) This is tulasī? Tell them. The disease is there; the medicine is there. So intelligent man should take the medicine, precaution, and then he'll be saved. Two things are there. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. In Kali-yuga, if you don't take this, then there is no means of your save, safety. The two things are there. Why you are taking one thing? You take this thing or... [break] Everywhere two things are there: do's and don't's. So in order to make the process of do's you have to accept the process of don't's. That Nectar of Instruction, Rūpa Gosvāmī? He's instructing both the do's and the don't's. Huh? You have read it?
Harikeśa: Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca... [NoI 2].
Harikeśa: Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca.
Prabhupāda: Ah. That is don't's.
Harikeśa: Utsāhān niścayāt...
Prabhupāda: This is do's. That is instruction. Why should you take one side? Take both sides.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing is that in those two verses, one is don't and one is do, but the...
Prabhupāda: You have to take.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is still a statement in the do's which is a don't, where it says, "Don't associate with nondevotees." Utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt... [Upadeśāmṛta 3].
Prabhupāda: Sato vṛtteḥ saṅga-tyāgāt.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Saṅga-tyāgāt sato vṛtteḥ. So that's a don't.
Prabhupāda: No, no. There is don't's and do's also. Sato vṛtteḥ. This is do's. Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because it's translated as "Don't associate with the nondevotees."
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. All the ślokas, they are... In some śloka the do's are prominent, some ślokas don't's prominent, but in every śloka there is do's and don't's. Everywhere there is. In the Bible also: "Thou shall not do. Thou shall not kill." The don't's. [break] You are learning śabda-rūpa, dhātu-rūpa.
Hiraṇyagarbha: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Every śloka there is śabda, dhātu, everything. Nominative, objective. [break] ...some you are going to say, just study yourself, whether it is not the civilization of asses and pigs. You have to understand first of all. Is it not? They are working hard like an ass just to become an ideal pig. Is it not this civilization?
Harikeśa: Having sex with mother, daughter, sister...
Prabhupāda: Yes. How śāstra has picked up the example, just see. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra. Nāyaṁdeho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate... [SB 5.5.1]. What is that?
Prabhupāda: Viḍ-bhujāṁye. This is not civilization. This is civilization, tapasya: no meat-eating, no this, no this, that, and become perfect, ideal brāhmaṇa life, satya śama dama śuci jñāna vijñāna. This is civilization. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Unless you become civilized like this, there is no opportunity of brahma-jijñāsā. And so long you do not inquire about Brahman, that you remain, that pigs and hogs and asses. If human civilization is wasted to cultivate the pig civilization, naturally, "All right, you come here. Become a pig now. Take this body." Kṛṣṇa will say, "Nature, prakṛti, he got this chance to become human being, but has misused. Kindly give him a body of pig."
hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati
Then you get this yantra, how you can become perfect pig, whole day and night eat stool, and as soon as you get another opposite party, have sex. Doesn't matter whether it is daughter or mother or sister. That's all. Take Freud's philosophy and become highly advanced in civilization. Now the Freud's philosophy is being translated in Hindi and so many other languages. We are advancing in civilization, Indians. They are translating this Freud's philosophy, pig civilization. People therefore do not come to us. (chuckles) They avoid us because "They are not pigs."
Harikeśa: Pigs don't like to live in a clean house.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a story in Bhāgavata that Indra was cursed to become a pig. So after some time there was mismanagement in the heavenly kingdom. Brahmā personally came, "Indra, anyway, you became pig. Now you come with me." "Huh? How can I go? I have got so much responsibility." Then he was killed and took to heaven. So any life, any abominable condition, everyone is thinking, "I am perfect." This is called māyā. Any abominable condition, he is thinking, everyone is thinking, that "I am perfect. I have nothing to advance." This is called māyā. They do not know what is perfection. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. The ideal perfection they do not know. They are trying that "We shall make this pig life adjusted to civilized life." Is it possible? Pig life and adjusting to civilized life? Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we shall get down? [break] Nobody will accept. But if you explain that "You are no better than pigs and hogs and asses," then they will accept. So we have to take the idea from Bhāgavata and explain it for their understanding. That is wanted. [break] People are working so hard. Is it pleasure? But why they are working? They are working with the only hope that "Night, I shall go home, eat nicely and have sex with my wife." That's all. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁhi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. Otherwise why they will work so hard? Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Māyāpura