Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee (1): This is a new picture of Mars, just came in the Washington Post today. Here is what the scientists say the mountains are on Mars. Big crater they are talking about. This is a recent photo.
Prabhupāda: So? What do they say?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Says it's a Grand Canyon. Just like in Arizona there's a canyon called Grand Canyon.
Prabhupāda: So might be from Arizona? (laughter) Like Arizona, that means Arizona.
Rūpānuga: Just like Arizona, the same rocks you find in Arizona.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is called Martian Grand Canyon, and an ocean meandering gorge ten times the size of Arizona's Grand Canyon.
Prabhupāda: That we can photograph it and make ten times, hundred times. Their business is in Arizona.
Rūpānuga: I think so.
Prabhupāda: And this is only the propaganda.
Rūpānuga: I agree. I think it was all like a movie set.
Prabhupāda: That's all. They are not going. Arizona is there, only accept. Why they are taking Arizona? That means they are in Arizona. Just like one man was stealing from the room, and there were some sounds, and the master of the house said "Who is there? What is that sound?" The man said, "No, I am not stealing. No, no I am not stealing." It is like that. (laughter)
Rūpānuga: Throughout this article they make comparisons with earth.
Prabhupāda: And there is no man. Just see the foolishness. The same logic, "No, no, I am not stealing." Who asked that you are stealing? He asked for the sound, but he disclosed. It is like that. Why they are bringing Arizona?
Rūpānuga: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you catch them red-handed.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, that I can do. It is like that. Who asked them to speak of Arizona? You are speaking of Arizona. "No, no, I am not stealing." (laughter) It is like that. They could have mentioned other places.
Rūpānuga: Arizona is convenient.
Prabhupāda: That means they are working in Arizona. The mind is there. Arizona-minded because they are working in Arizona, so they are disclosing mind.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they are claiming that this photograph was taken two hundred million miles away from the earth.
Prabhupāda: That, they can say anything, but they are doing everything in Arizona.
Vipina: What is the point then, Prabhupāda? Just to take money and use it some other way?
Prabhupāda: No, no, just to cheat people that they are very big scientists, give them fat salary. That's all. But what people will benefit by this?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to study whether there is life there or not.
Prabhupāda: There is life, you do not know.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are not sure yet.
Prabhupāda: There is life everywhere. We can say from the śāstra. There cannot be any place vacant. It is not possible. Must be life there. All planets are vacant, simply this planet is congested, overpopulation. What is this nonsense? What is the difference between this planet and other planets, chemically or physiologically?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say there are differences.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Differences, that may be little, the difference between cat's body, dog's body, man's body, little difference must be there. But the elements are the same. At least, I'll not believe. No, I am not blind, but in the śāstra, every planet is congested. That is in the Bhāgavatam.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, actually we also have some information even in science that there must be life there in other planets.
Prabhupāda: I, he was of my age, perhaps you know his name, Dr. Shah? So he was my friend in Allahabad. So he said, "No there is life." He said, Dr. Menga Shah(?). There is no question of disbelieving, he said, and he is also big scientists, Dr. Menga Shah (?), Dr. Megha-kunda(?), they were all my customers.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's in U.P.?
Prabhupāda: U.P., Allahabad. The Jawaharlal Nehru, he was very big, big customer.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are in fact some reports in the last few years that there is some bacteria that can survive in the medium of ammonia-ammonia is alkaline solution. Normally life survives in...
Prabhupāda: Life survives in fire, water, fire. That is our information.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Also they proved that there are certain bacteria that can survive in about a 170 degrees. High temperature.
Prabhupāda: Why bacteria? Human beings. Otherwise, how Kṛṣṇa is speaking the sun-god? Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. Simply the sun-god is alone living?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: Then the sun planet there are living entities. Their body is made of fire, that's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it's better to say that when science says, scientists say there is no life in other planets, we can conclude that the senses or the forms that we have, or the elements that we have different...
Prabhupāda: They are different. Just like in the water, superficially we don't see any living being. But inside you go, there are many millions of living entities. They took photograph. What is the meaning of photograph from such a distance? If you take photograph of the sea, what you will find? It is vacant. So the rascals are taking photograph, and I have to believe it. Photograph, what is the meaning of photograph? There is no meaning. Take the photograph of the sea, if I know what is there. Then go deep into the water, you'll find millions and trillions.
Sadāpūta: There are also living entities living in the air that we can't see.
Prabhupāda: You can't see so many things. What is the value of your eyes? Why do you believe so much your eyes? You cannot see even your eyelids, so close. Still, you are blind. When there is some particle, you cannot see. You have to struggle how to get out this particle. If you see, then take it. So what is the value of your eyes? Why do you believe so much? Adhyakṣa, they are called adhyakṣa, only believe in direct perception.
Hari-śauri: Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Let him come. So?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Getting French visa was done, and tomorrow I pick up your passport and apply for Iran visa. Then just one more, Italy, remains.
Prabhupāda: Why do they speak about seeing? What is the value of your seeing? I have seen the Atlantic Ocean, that means I have seen everything? This is ludicrous.
Rūpānuga: They may simply speculate from a distance, that "Here is the surface," like here...
Prabhupāda: That's all. Real business is speculation.
Rūpānuga: Here it says, here, this is some great, here...
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is "I am not stealing."
Rūpānuga: Twelve hundred miles above the surface. Now they want to speculate what is there.
Prabhupāda: Who asked him that who is stealing? But he said "I am not stealing."
Rūpānuga: That is perfect, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Why he brings Arizona? Who asked him? That means that their business in Arizona.
Rūpānuga: They have exposed themselves.
Prabhupāda: Rascals, how they are cheating people.
Rūpānuga: Such a big hoax. They have spent billions of dollars for such a hoax.
Prabhupāda: Now you consider whether I am right or wrong. The moon planet is also Arizona. (laughs) All their business asset is there.
Rūpānuga: So one of the things we want to do is expose this cheating. Should we expose this kind of thing directly like this, or should we indirectly deal with it?
Prabhupāda: No, you do scientifically. I give you the hint. (laughter)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If we say that, they will be mad at the...
Prabhupāda: Give psychology. Say "Who asked him about Arizona? Why he is speaking Arizona?" That means they are in Arizona.
Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.