Sir, Stick to the  conclusion !

Indian man (1):  He is everywhere. He is omnipresent.

Prabhupāda:  Yes. He is present within your heart, but still, He has got His own place.

Indian man (1):  This is why he says he has been trained(?).

Prabhupāda:  Yes.

Indian man (1):  But it can also mean that He is not everywhere because...

Prabhupāda:  Why not? That is God. That is God. You are thinking in your terms. Because when you are at your home you are not everywhere, you think God is like that. That is your deficiency. Why do you compare yourself with God? That is your deficiency.

Indian man (1):  This is a philosophical point of view.

Prabhupāda:  Not philosophical point, view. You are thinking God in your own terms. Because you are imperfect—when you sit in your home you cannot be present at my home—therefore you are thinking God is like that.

Indian man (1):  When you say "He descends," does it mean "got down"?Prabhupāda: Yes. "He descends," it does not mean that He is absent in His abode. That is God. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. You understand this? Ananta-rūpam. He can expand Himself in unlimited forms. Otherwise how it is possible-īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]? God is situated in everyone's heart. "Everyone" means within your heart, within my heart, within cat's heart, within dog's heart—everyone's heart. So there are innumerable living entities. How He is situated everywhere? Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]: "He is within this universe and He is within the atom." That is God.



Indian man (2):  Swamiji?

Prabhupāda:  Yes?

Indian man (2):  You are accepting to you questions put by a young man. Will you still kindly answer all questions put by an old? (laughter)

Prabhupāda:  Hm? What is that?

Brahmānanda:  He says that—excuse me—that you have already accepted one question from a young man, so now would you kindly accept a question from an old man?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You are neither old; he is neither young. (laughter) Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Yes. Yes?

Indian man (2):  In your lecture, Swamiji, if I don't mistake, you have mentioned many authorities, beginning with the Veda, Brahma-sūtra, Bhagavad-gītā or wisdom of the Mahābhārata. Do you accept all truth?

Prabhupāda:  Oh, yes.

Indian man (2):  Or are they stories? (?)

Prabhupāda:  Yes. Because it is given by Vyāsadeva, therefore it is also authority.

Indian man (2):  We have all listened to you very attentively.

Prabhupāda:  Rāmāyaṇa, Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa, that is also authority.

Indian man (2):  We have listened to you very attentively and I have no doubt that the audience have learned much which is, could be practiced to help us in some way to realize what we are and to realize God. Now, if God Himself comes to teach to someone in this world, and if he has learned from God directly and he is satisfied that he has learned, that he has understood, can he, a few minutes afterwards, forget that he has received instruction from God and can he depart in a very ridiculous way from God, from what God has taught him in person?

Prabhupāda:  Ridiculous way? What is that "ridiculous"?

Indian man (2):  If I have read...

Prabhupāda:  No, no. First of all correct yourself. What is that "ridiculous way"?

Indian man (2):  If after receiving good education you act contrary to that education.

Prabhupāda:  What is that?

Indian man (2):  At least, is ridiculous.

Brahmānanda:  If you receive a good education and then you act contrary to that education.

Prabhupāda:  If one has received good education, he cannot act contradictory.

Indian man (2):  That is... I agree with you. But this is what, if I have understood...

Prabhupāda:  So a person who has got real education, he cannot be ridiculous. No, why you are saying that?

Indian man (2):  It can be explained by ridiculous.

Prabhupāda:  No, no. Don't say anything which is contradictory. Education does not mean ridiculous. That means he is not educated.

Indian man (2):  I have not said that education is ridiculous. I said that one who has got good education from a teacher...

Prabhupāda:  So he cannot act ridiculously. If he acts ridiculously, then he has not good education.

Indian man (2):  So if I have well understood...

Prabhupāda:  You have not well understood. You say a person who has got education, still, he acts ridiculously. That means you have no knowledge what is education.

Indian man (2):  I shall explain myself well, but if you wish to be...

Prabhupāda:  So if you cannot explain yourself, how can I continue to hear you?

Indian man (2):  If you have got one minute more patience I will explain how.

Prabhupāda:  No, no, no. If you speak ridiculously, how can I hear you? You say that one man has got education and he acts ridiculously. This is... Your statement is ridiculous.

Indian man (2):  I said if a man who has good education...

Prabhupāda:  No, no. He has no good education. You cannot say that. If he acts ridiculously, that, he has no good education.

Indian man (2):  Well, let me put it another way. In the Bhagavad-gītā is there a passage, is there a chapter where Arjuna says, "I have heard all Your teachings. Now I have understood the truth," or not?

Prabhupāda:  So you have to hear and you have to understand; then you can speak. Otherwise you will speak ridiculously.

Indian man (2):  No. Arjuna has said that he has heard God Himself speak to him and that he has understood the truth and that we are all, as you have said, a little bit of a finger in a body and the finger must serve the body.

Prabhupāda:  So you have to approach such person who has heard God, just like Arjuna.

Indian man (2):  The next day he goes on the battlefield and he hears that his son has been killed. He loses all his self-control and he said, "I am going to throw myself in the fire. I have lost my son." Is that the action of a man who has heard God Himself speak to him? This is what I want to ask.

Prabhupāda:  You mean to say Arjuna? What is your statement? You mean to say Arjuna?

Indian man (2):  Yes.

Prabhupāda: So Arjuna, he... Of course, sentiment... Just like theoretically we understand, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Still, when my son dies I become affected. That is temporary. That is temporary. But Arjuna, after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa gave him the liberty that "Now I have spoken to you everything. Now whatever you like, you can do. What is the answer? The answer kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. "Yes, I shall carry out your order." This is the conclusion that temporarily you may be disturbed under certain circumstances. But if your conviction is that "I shall act according to the order of God," that is final. That is final. He did not act against the will of the Lord. That is his victory. Temporarily he might have been disturbed when his son was killed. That is a different thing. Everyone becomes. But that does not mean he stopped work. That is wanted. What was the final conclusion? He did not leave the warfield because his son Abhimanyu was killed; therefore he left—"No, I don't want to fight"? No, he did not do that. He was affected for the time being. That is natural. But finally he concluded and he said, "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]. Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā: "My illusion is now over. I shall fight." That is right conclusion.

Indian man (2):  Thank you.

Indian man (3): Swamiji, may I ask, just to... As my friend has just said about the teaching of... In the battlefield, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, about the verse about... Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. It is an oft repeated phrase or śloka which has gone deep into the subconscious mind of the Ind..., especially the Hindu people have taken it, probably because of all of the wrong interpretations. That why should we go and tire ourself or make effort? If we are in trouble, oh, just wait for the God to come down to the earth and He will help us and do what we need or defend us?

Prabhupāda:  That is your instruction. That is not God's instruction.

Indian man (3):  But it has been.

Prabhupāda:  No.

Indian man (3):  According to my...

Prabhupāda:  The God says that "Here is injustice, so you should fight." God says that. God never says that "I am God, Kṛṣṇa. I am your friend. You sit down idly and I shall do everything." He never said that. He said that "You must fight." That is our duty, not that God has given us hands and legs and you sit down idly and let God do it. This is not devotion.

Indian man (3):  Then you agree with me that this oft-repeated śloka has created a state of fatalism among the Hindu community?

Prabhupāda:  What is that?

Indian man (3):  That yadā yadā hi...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:  Fatalism. This verse created fatalism, fatalism, a sense of hopelessness.

Prabhupāda:  Hopelessness?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:  Pessimism. Fatalism.

Brahmānanda:  It has been interpreted that this verse means that God will come and therefore we don't have to do anything.

Prabhupāda:  God is always present. You carry out the order of God. God is always present. You carry out the order of the God.

Indian man (3): The verse is clear, yadā yadā hi dharmasya [Bg. 4.7].

Prabhupāda:  Yes. So that is being done every moment. Every moment we are forgetting our dharma and God is giving us instruction.

Indian man (3):  This state of fatalism which is prevalent in India...

Prabhupāda:  It is not spoken to India. It is spoken to everyone. "India," why do you bring India? God is not made for India.

Indian man (3):  But I have nothing in India, but I know India, so...

Prabhupāda:  Then why you say India.

Indian man (3):  I have seen India. I know India.

Prabhupāda:  No, why you bring India at all? God is not meant for India.

Indian man (3):  But Hinduism...

Prabhupāda:  No, God is not meant for Hindu.

Indian man (3):  No, I am not talking about... I was talking about... (laughter) ...that this śloka, I mean, probably...

Prabhupāda: That God said, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir... [Bg. 4.7]. He doesn't say, yadā yadā hindu dharmasya glānir. (laughter) So why do you speak nonsense? He never says. Why do you speak like that?

Indian man (3):  It has written. I mean it was read like that.

Prabhupāda:  No, no. That is your creation. That is your creation, mental speculation. He never said yadā yadā hi hindu dharmasya glānir bhavati. He never said. Why do you speak all these things?

Indian man (3):  Anyway, it has created a state of fatalism.

Indian man (2): Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati [Bg. 4.7].

Prabhupāda:  Yes.

Indian man (2):  "When there is unrighteousness, I come in this world to reinstate dharma."

Prabhupāda:  Yes. That is the...

Indian man (2):  And He has not come now. There is no unrighteousness in this world?

Prabhupāda:  He has come, but you have no eyes to see. You require the eyes to see.

English man:  Sir, I have listened to your talk with very great interest. You're very clear and very lucid. But you're also very dogmatic, I feel. Is there any area of doubt in your own philosophy, or are you quite certain in every field?

Prabhupāda:  What is that dogmatic?

English man:  Dogmatic? You are very... When you have a question put to you, you are very clear what the answer shall be. (devotees chuckle) Have you any doubts yourself that have not appeared to us?

Prabhupāda:  So you answer. You are American?

English man:  I am Scottish.

Prabhupāda:  Scottish, England. In Scotland we have got also. Edinburgh, we have got our temple.

English man:  But you are very... You seem very... Your philosophy seems very clear cut.

Prabhupāda:  Thank you very much. (laughter)

English man:  Are you well satisfied with that, that there is no area of doubt?

Prabhupāda:  Therefore it is appealing more to the Western countries, yes. Mostly it is very acceptable in the Western countries.

English man:  Thank you.

Prabhupāda:  So chant Hare Kṛṣṇa again.

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Comments: 1
  • #1

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